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what do you want to do with your money in the economy does go off the fiscal cliff? >> yeah, we were worried about that back in september, october. so even though we like the equity markets going into 2013, we wanted to hedge ourselves a little bit, so we took money out of equities. didn't just put it into cash. we put it into three areas we think are still good long term. one is we talk about emerging market equities, but i like emerging market debt. these monetary authorities are done tightening. they fought the inflationary problem that they had successfully. they're in hoed. yield curves could shift down. we stress doing it in local currency. the other areas are u.s. high yield, which i still think is valuable. we do think spreads will contract and emerging market equities as well. >> jordan, what about you? how are you preparing for what could be an eventuality where we go over the cliff and we've got to deal with higher taxes and a slower economy? a lot of people expecting recession in 2013, if, in fact, this occurs. >> think about what works well in a slow-gro
what do you want to do with your money in the economy does go off the fiscal cliff? >> yeah, we were worried about that back in september, october. so even though we like the equity markets going into 2013, we wanted to hedge ourselves a little bit, so we took money out of equities. didn't just put it into cash. we put it into three areas we think are still good long term. one is we talk about emerging market equities, but i like emerging market debt. these monetary authorities are done...
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if they resolve the fiscal cliff and the economy remains growing, although kind of sluggish -- here is another scenario, we have a loss of revenue from growth money. we are in a situation where we will prepare for the best, hope for the best, but anticipate a negative growth in the economy. liz: there is actually what we are calling the twinkie of fact. it is a negative bidder twinkie affect. there is a hostess plant where you live. how many jobs will that drop-off, as far as employment is concerned? >> a few hundred. clearly, any kind of negative constriction of the marketplace impacts us. even if it is a negative state. clearly, here at home, the good news for us is we are going at a 3.5% rate now economically. we are creating jobs. we have a healthy economy and a great quality of life which is attracting people and businesses to utah. we do not have control over what happens in washington, d.c. we are being very cautious as we go forward waiting to see resolution, out of washington, d.c. liz: i saw a quote of something you said. i thought it was perfect for washington. compromise sh
if they resolve the fiscal cliff and the economy remains growing, although kind of sluggish -- here is another scenario, we have a loss of revenue from growth money. we are in a situation where we will prepare for the best, hope for the best, but anticipate a negative growth in the economy. liz: there is actually what we are calling the twinkie of fact. it is a negative bidder twinkie affect. there is a hostess plant where you live. how many jobs will that drop-off, as far as employment is...
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. >> going over the fiscal cliff will hurt our economy and will hurt job creation in our country. >>er -- every family in america will see their taxes automatically go up at the beginning of next year. >> shepard: so how to avoid that. >> the president and congress will either fail together or we will succeed together. >> there has to be a deal. there has to be an agreement. >> and if they can't come up with a compromise, we are all going to pay the price. plus, they are some of the biggest names in baseball. bonds, clemens, sosa. all three tainted by accusations they used performance enhancing drugs. but should that keep them from cooper's town? tonight, the great debate over baseball's hall of fame ballot but first from fox this wednesday night, the president hopes who have the framework of a deal to avoid the so-called fiscal cliff by christmas. president obama says he would like congress to pass a bill even sooner to extend tax cuts for the middle class families. and he invited some of those middle class americans to the white house today to help make his case. >> i have got a
. >> going over the fiscal cliff will hurt our economy and will hurt job creation in our country. >>er -- every family in america will see their taxes automatically go up at the beginning of next year. >> shepard: so how to avoid that. >> the president and congress will either fail together or we will succeed together. >> there has to be a deal. there has to be an agreement. >> and if they can't come up with a compromise, we are all going to pay the price....
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. >> an added wrinkle to the fiscal cliff talks is the debt ceiling, with the government on pace to reach its borrowing limit early next year. the white house stated its position on the 14th amendment, which some theory rise is a way for the president to raise the debt limit independently, should republicans attempt to use it as a negotiating tool. >> i can say that this administration does not believe that the 14th amendment gives the president the power to ignore the debt ceiling, period. >> the fiscal cliff talks reached a new low yesterday when, somehow, the new york jets got dragged into it on the senate floor. >> it's not one of my favorite teams, but it's really, really fun to watch, and that's the new york jets. coach ryan, he's got a problem. he has three quarterbacks, sanchez, he's got tim tebow, he's got another guy. he can't decide who their quarterback is going to be. that's the same problem republicans are having. romney's gone, but he's still in the background. we have mcconnell and we have boehner. who is the quarterback, mr. president? who is the quarterback? >> there's s
. >> an added wrinkle to the fiscal cliff talks is the debt ceiling, with the government on pace to reach its borrowing limit early next year. the white house stated its position on the 14th amendment, which some theory rise is a way for the president to raise the debt limit independently, should republicans attempt to use it as a negotiating tool. >> i can say that this administration does not believe that the 14th amendment gives the president the power to ignore the debt ceiling,...
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when it comes to the fiscal cliff that is turning our economy and jobs, the white hhuse is wasted another week. gerri: what do you say? we wasted another week. we seem to be getting nowhere, and now folks are saying the president is trying to entice us of the fiscal cliff. >> look, i think they're actually some pretty strong incentives for the president to take the country over the fiscal cliff. if you look at what the president's stance to gain if the country goes over the fiscal cliff, there are very clear and identifiable things. on the one hand the president could identify himself as a tax cutter. he could say -- on january 1st the president in terms of the country and say, now in favor of cutting these taxes that have been raised because we did not solve this before the fiscal cliff. he can turn and say to my want to restore some of this funding that my secretary of defense and joint chiefs of staff told me i need to restore and can position himself as sort of the protector of u.s. national security. so there are some clear incentives to the president to lead the country over the fis
when it comes to the fiscal cliff that is turning our economy and jobs, the white hhuse is wasted another week. gerri: what do you say? we wasted another week. we seem to be getting nowhere, and now folks are saying the president is trying to entice us of the fiscal cliff. >> look, i think they're actually some pretty strong incentives for the president to take the country over the fiscal cliff. if you look at what the president's stance to gain if the country goes over the fiscal cliff,...
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maybe the chance of that 40 years ago is 10 percent and the chance of the fiscal cliff and higher taxes killing the economy is probably 50 percent and, yes, you are right, we are still not fixing the problem or coming to a solution. one thing, remember, when we had the problem with the debt downgrade and the different talks a year ago? there were the scare tactics from washington about what would happen to interest rates, and what would happen to social security, and interest rates went down, people got their checks and everything was fine. >>neil: i am reminded of the words of the apollo 13 command other, can you not fake the magnitude of a disaster but washington can paper over a problem with cuts that are not real, and revenues that may not be what they appear to be, so, the fear is the same, it is presenting something that ultimately markets will not buy and people will not trust. >>guest: that is right. and, also, put in the notion it has to be done in the next three weeks or else, and look what has happened with the debt numbers. the nones are absolutely out-of-control. it will be
maybe the chance of that 40 years ago is 10 percent and the chance of the fiscal cliff and higher taxes killing the economy is probably 50 percent and, yes, you are right, we are still not fixing the problem or coming to a solution. one thing, remember, when we had the problem with the debt downgrade and the different talks a year ago? there were the scare tactics from washington about what would happen to interest rates, and what would happen to social security, and interest rates went down,...
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>> talking about business owners flat-out spooked about the economy, about the fiscal cliff and about whether or not there's going to be any certainty any time soon. we will explain and have the latest numbers coming up on "power lunch." i gave birth to my daughter on may 18th, five days later, i had a massive heart attack. bayer aspirin was the first thing the emts gave me. now, i'm on a bayer aspirin regimen. [ male announcer ] be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. [ woman ] learn from my story. ♪ [ engine revs ] ♪ [ male announcer ] oh what fun it is to ride. get the mercedes-benz on your wish list at the winter event going on now through december 31st. [ santa ] ho, ho, ho! [ male announcer ] lease a 2013 e350 for $579 a month at your l mercedes-benz dealer. >>> welcome back to "power lunch," comments from jpmorgan cfo doug bronstein presenting at the goldman sachs financial conference today, jpmorgan expects low rate ounce deposits to take $400 million out of net income in 2012 and 2013. mortgage only nation volume higher in the four rt quarter c
>> talking about business owners flat-out spooked about the economy, about the fiscal cliff and about whether or not there's going to be any certainty any time soon. we will explain and have the latest numbers coming up on "power lunch." i gave birth to my daughter on may 18th, five days later, i had a massive heart attack. bayer aspirin was the first thing the emts gave me. now, i'm on a bayer aspirin regimen. [ male announcer ] be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin...
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over the fiscal cliff he has done nothing to demonstrate it. but even as the democrats pound him from the left, he is taking punches from the right. the leader of the right's rebellion is, of course, grover norquist. he said the president has installed himself at loyalty, and boehner is not being sufficiently revolutionary. >> he thinks someone made him king. he doesn't have the mandate that he thinks he does. i think he takes us over the cliff because he has got blinders on. he doesn't see where he stands in the universe. >> jennifer: or where he stands? where the president stands? he's leader of the free world for goodness sakes. but back to the tea party senator jim demint, who was riding first class on the tea party express, he tweeted that boehner's propose is an $800 billion tax hike that will destroy jobs and allow politicians to spend even more. not so fast, demint. there is yet another front in this revolution. conservative columnist jennifer ruben dismissed demint's rhetoric and says the votes of demimit t al are no votes. oh please,
over the fiscal cliff he has done nothing to demonstrate it. but even as the democrats pound him from the left, he is taking punches from the right. the leader of the right's rebellion is, of course, grover norquist. he said the president has installed himself at loyalty, and boehner is not being sufficiently revolutionary. >> he thinks someone made him king. he doesn't have the mandate that he thinks he does. i think he takes us over the cliff because he has got blinders on. he doesn't...
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i want to ask you about the fiscal cliff, the state of play. there's revenues on the table. there's tax rate increases on the table. i don't know if there's spending on the table. what's your thinking prigt now? >> that it's a really, really bad idea to raise taxes. if you want your economy to grow, you should do the opposite. we have to cut taxes. that's how i'd fix the economy. leave more money in the private sector. the president is adamant about raising taxes and he's dead wrong. >> there are some people saying we need a deal to avoid a huge tax increase but year end that would throw us into recession. just a thought, would you compromise in terms of let's say a smaller tax rate increase -- let's say the top rate goes to 37% instead of 40%, maybe the threshold goads es to $500,000 $750,000 rather than $250,000? does that interest you? >> no. but what about means testing for entitlement. why don't we say the rich get less social security and they pay more for their medicare? it meets the president's animus that we must get more money out of the rich. let's just send less
i want to ask you about the fiscal cliff, the state of play. there's revenues on the table. there's tax rate increases on the table. i don't know if there's spending on the table. what's your thinking prigt now? >> that it's a really, really bad idea to raise taxes. if you want your economy to grow, you should do the opposite. we have to cut taxes. that's how i'd fix the economy. leave more money in the private sector. the president is adamant about raising taxes and he's dead wrong....
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let's take a listen. >> when it comes to the fiscal cliff that's threatening our economy and threatening jobs, the white house has wasted another week. eight days ago secretary geithner came here to offer a plan that had twice the tax hikes that the president campaigned on. it had more stimulus spending than it had in cuts. and an indefinite, infinite increase on the debt limit, like forever. four days ago we offered a serious proposal, based on testimony of president clinton's former chief of staff. since then, there's been no counteroffer from the white house. instead, reports indicate that the president has adopted a deliberate strategy to slow-walk our economy right to the edge of the cliff. instead of cutting spending, the president want to raise tax rates. but even if the president got the tax rate hike that he wanted, understand that we would continue to see trillion dollar deficits for as far as the eye can see. listen, washington has a spending problem, not a revenue problem. and if the president doesn't agree with our proposal, i believe he has an obligation to families and sma
let's take a listen. >> when it comes to the fiscal cliff that's threatening our economy and threatening jobs, the white house has wasted another week. eight days ago secretary geithner came here to offer a plan that had twice the tax hikes that the president campaigned on. it had more stimulus spending than it had in cuts. and an indefinite, infinite increase on the debt limit, like forever. four days ago we offered a serious proposal, based on testimony of president clinton's former...
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let's say hypothetically we go off the fiscal cliff because clearly both sides are digging in. here we are at the edge once again like last summer. we go off the fiscal cliff. 2013 comes. we go into recession. doesn't that hit corporate earnings, which, of course, has been the best part of this recovery anywhere? >> there's no question about that. i would contend that the market has probably already factored most of that in. when you can buy a number of stocks -- in the hodges small cap fund, we have a number of stocks trading below their growth rate. that's telling you that the market is not expecting good growth. when you can buy stocks that are growing at 20% a year at ten times earnings, that's a good valuation. there are a number of those situations there that we're seeing left and right. >> got to go, guys. >> okay. >> sorry, jeff. you know how that works. you guys on the website, you get unlimited amount of space. just go on. >> tell me editor. >> i know. >> thanks, guys. see you soon. let's get over to jackie deangelis with a quick market flash. >> hey, there. watching
let's say hypothetically we go off the fiscal cliff because clearly both sides are digging in. here we are at the edge once again like last summer. we go off the fiscal cliff. 2013 comes. we go into recession. doesn't that hit corporate earnings, which, of course, has been the best part of this recovery anywhere? >> there's no question about that. i would contend that the market has probably already factored most of that in. when you can buy a number of stocks -- in the hodges small cap...
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middle class from the fiscal cliff. without spending cuts and entitlement reform, it will be impossible to address our countries debt crisis and get our economy going again and create jobs. right now, all eyes are on the white house. our country does not need a victory lap, it needs leadership. it is time for the president and congressional democrats to tell the american people what spending cuts they are really going to make. with that, i will take a few questions. [inaudible question] >> we have outlined very specific proposals that we passed in last year's budget and the budget before. we know what the venue is. what we do not know is what the white house is willing to do to get serious about solving our debt crisis. [inaudible question] >> i am not going to get into the details. it is very clear what kind of spending cuts need to occur. we have no idea what the white house is willing to do. [inaudible question] >> no, no, no. stop. i have to tell you, i am disappointed in where we are. i am disappointed in what has
middle class from the fiscal cliff. without spending cuts and entitlement reform, it will be impossible to address our countries debt crisis and get our economy going again and create jobs. right now, all eyes are on the white house. our country does not need a victory lap, it needs leadership. it is time for the president and congressional democrats to tell the american people what spending cuts they are really going to make. with that, i will take a few questions. [inaudible question]...
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up next, tax hikes, overspending, uncertainty, fiscal cliff threatening the economy, but maybe not? we take it all up with moody's chief economist, and deutsche bank senior economist here next. stay with us. lou: you know, it may surprise some that december is historically the strongest month for investors. the s&p500 posting gains in december, 82% of the time since 1990. it's that 18% that should trouble folks, but are concerns with the fiscal cliff giving investors a reason to be less than optimistic? joining me is john, and carl, senior economist for deutsche bank. gentlemen, thank you for being here. start with the treasury secretary. the man in charge of our treasury is out telling everyone that the administration he works for is a part of is perfectly prepared to go over the fiscal cliff in order to raise a tax rate to 39.6%. does that make any sense to you? are you shocked, surprised? >> well, i guess i'm not surprised given we're in the early stages of the discussion, but for the economists and forecasters out there calling this is the fiscal slope, not a cliff or believe it
up next, tax hikes, overspending, uncertainty, fiscal cliff threatening the economy, but maybe not? we take it all up with moody's chief economist, and deutsche bank senior economist here next. stay with us. lou: you know, it may surprise some that december is historically the strongest month for investors. the s&p500 posting gains in december, 82% of the time since 1990. it's that 18% that should trouble folks, but are concerns with the fiscal cliff giving investors a reason to be less...
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going over the fiscal cliff will hurt our economy and will her job creation in our country. republicans are committed to continuing to work with the president to come to an agreement to avert the so-called fiscal clef. one reason why we believe that we put revenue on the table as long as it is accompanied by serious spending cuts to avert a crisis. we believe this is the president's request for a balanced approach to this issue, and we are going to continue to work with the president to try to resolve this in a way that is fair for the american people. we all now that we have had the spending crisis coming at us like a freight train. it has to be dealt with. in order to try to come to an agreement, republicans are willing to put revenue on the table. it is time for the president and democrats to get serious about the spending problem our country has. i am optimistic. we can continue to work together to avert this crisis, sooner rather than later. >> good morning. last week, the president's chief political adviser indicated that medicare and medicaid are the main drivers of o
going over the fiscal cliff will hurt our economy and will her job creation in our country. republicans are committed to continuing to work with the president to come to an agreement to avert the so-called fiscal clef. one reason why we believe that we put revenue on the table as long as it is accompanied by serious spending cuts to avert a crisis. we believe this is the president's request for a balanced approach to this issue, and we are going to continue to work with the president to try to...
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members of his own party seem quite comfortable in sending the economy over the fiscal cliff. two weeks ago we had a very productive conversation at the white house. but based on where we stand today i would say two things. first, despite the claims that the president supports a balanced approach, the democrats have yet to get serious about real spending cuts. and secondly, no substantive progress has been made in talks between the white house and the house over the last two weeks. listen, this is not a game. jobs are on the line. the american economy is on the line. and this is a moment for adult leadership. host: up next on the proposal that was offered by the white house on the fiscal cliff. this is jon. independent line. hello. caller: hello. first of all, happy holidays. not sure. happy holidays, anyway. second of all, you people are journalists. you people are true journalists. i watch every day of the week. and one more thing, that fool that called yesterday, must be a product of inbreeding the way -- i don't know how they let him in. host: before we go back to yesterda
members of his own party seem quite comfortable in sending the economy over the fiscal cliff. two weeks ago we had a very productive conversation at the white house. but based on where we stand today i would say two things. first, despite the claims that the president supports a balanced approach, the democrats have yet to get serious about real spending cuts. and secondly, no substantive progress has been made in talks between the white house and the house over the last two weeks. listen, this...
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what a ceo, a toy ceo, plans to tell the president about jobs, the economy and the fiscal cliff. >>> plus, the top tech trends coming in 2013 and how you can play them right now. find out on "power." now back to scott and more on "fast half." >> see you in 15 minutes. >>> sin to win. jon najarian crunched the performance on the numbers of sin stocks. up big since the recession. >> take a look at, for instance, cigarette stocks. starting with altria. going through phillip morris. smoke them if you've got them, folks. these are outstanding performances. up 123% for altria. 112% and 117% respectively for the other two cigarette stocks. that's not all. i mean, you know, bartender, i'll have another. take a look at the performance over the last four years of consolation brands. 131%. >> how many times did you say that last night? >> budweiser. that's what i was saying last night. 125%. and diageo 115%. i know where you're going with that i'll have another. as far as get away trades, priceline, this is one of those outstanding performers that even makes apple look sick. up 873% since '08.
what a ceo, a toy ceo, plans to tell the president about jobs, the economy and the fiscal cliff. >>> plus, the top tech trends coming in 2013 and how you can play them right now. find out on "power." now back to scott and more on "fast half." >> see you in 15 minutes. >>> sin to win. jon najarian crunched the performance on the numbers of sin stocks. up big since the recession. >> take a look at, for instance, cigarette stocks. starting with...
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up next, tax hikes, overspending, uncertainty, fiscal cliff threatening the economy, but maybe not? we take it all up with moody's iefonomist, and deuche bank senior economist here next. stay with us. with the spark cash card from capital one, olaf gets great rewas for his small business! pizza! [ garth ] olaf's small busins earns 2% cash back on every purchase, ery day! helium delivery. put it on my spark rd! [ pop! ] [ garth ] why settleor less? great businesses deserve great rewards! awesome!!! [ male announcer ] the spark business card from capital one. choose unlimited rewards with 2% cash back or double miles on every purchase, every day! what's in your wallet? we don't let frequent heartburn come between us and what we love. so if you're onef them people who gets heartburn and then treats day afr day... block the acid with prilosec otc and don't get heartburn in the first place! [ male announcer ] e pill eachmorning. 24 hours. zero heartbur lou: you know, it may surprise some that december is historically the strongest month for investors. the s&00 posting gains in december,
up next, tax hikes, overspending, uncertainty, fiscal cliff threatening the economy, but maybe not? we take it all up with moody's iefonomist, and deuche bank senior economist here next. stay with us. with the spark cash card from capital one, olaf gets great rewas for his small business! pizza! [ garth ] olaf's small busins earns 2% cash back on every purchase, ery day! helium delivery. put it on my spark rd! [ pop! ] [ garth ] why settleor less? great businesses deserve great rewards!...
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listen, going off the fiscal cliff will hurt our economy. it will cost american jobs. republicans have taken action to avert the fiscal cliff by passing legislation to stop all the tax hikes, to replace the sequester and pave the way for -- pave the way for tax reform and entitlement reform. and we're the only ones with a balanced plan to protect the economy and protect american jobs and protect the middle class from the fiscal cliff. but without spending cuts and entitlement reforms it's going to be impossible to address our country's debt crisis and to get our economy going again and to create jobs. so right now, all eyes are on the white house. the country doesn't need a victory lap. it needs leadership. it's time for the president, congressional democrats to tell the american people what spending cuts they're really willing to make. with that, i'll take a few questions sfwl speaker boehner, why will you not tell democrats what specific spending cuts you would like to see, especially within entitlements? >> it's been very clear over the last year and a half, i've ta
listen, going off the fiscal cliff will hurt our economy. it will cost american jobs. republicans have taken action to avert the fiscal cliff by passing legislation to stop all the tax hikes, to replace the sequester and pave the way for -- pave the way for tax reform and entitlement reform. and we're the only ones with a balanced plan to protect the economy and protect american jobs and protect the middle class from the fiscal cliff. but without spending cuts and entitlement reforms it's going...
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right to the edge of the fiscal cliff. instead of reforming the tax code and cutting spending the president wants to raise tax rates. even if the president got the tax rate hike that he wanted, understand that we would continue to see trillion-dollar deficits for as far as the eye can see. listen, washington has got a spending problem not a revenue problem. if the president doesn't agree with our proposal i believe that he's got an obligation to families and small businesses to offer a plan of his own, a plan that can pass both chambers of the congress. we are ready and eager to talk to the president about such a plan. >> you did speak with the president earlier this week, can you characterize that call? did he have any kind of counter offer? also, we understand that he is making clear that it's got to be increase in rates for the wealthy or no deal. are you willing to give a little bit maybe not all the way to 39.6? >> the phone call was pleasant, just more of the same. the conversations that the staff had yesterday, just
right to the edge of the fiscal cliff. instead of reforming the tax code and cutting spending the president wants to raise tax rates. even if the president got the tax rate hike that he wanted, understand that we would continue to see trillion-dollar deficits for as far as the eye can see. listen, washington has got a spending problem not a revenue problem. if the president doesn't agree with our proposal i believe that he's got an obligation to families and small businesses to offer a plan of...
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. >>> secretary geithner is up on capitol hill to lead negotiations on the fiscal cliff talks. >> you're not going to grow the economy if you raise taxes on the top two rates. that's not the right approach. >>> string of nasty storms barreling into the west coast. powerful winds have started knocking out power. >> just need to get to the other side of town. i don't have a choice. >> picked a bad day to do it? >> yeah. >> u.s. embassy in cairo is closed. the entrance is blocked by protesters as clashes erupt nearby. >> zebra and s hechlt tland pony ran wild through the streets of new york city. they apparently escaped from a petting zoo. >>> nypd says actress lindsay lohan has been raefed and charged with assault. >> three, two, one. >> only nbc would make a television event out of plugging something in. >> all that -- >> oh, humphries and rondo get into it. officials trying to get control here. >> don't tell me what i think. when i said i didn't have a problem, i don't have a problem. got it? >> and all that matters. >> president obama plans to play host to his old political rival, mitt
. >>> secretary geithner is up on capitol hill to lead negotiations on the fiscal cliff talks. >> you're not going to grow the economy if you raise taxes on the top two rates. that's not the right approach. >>> string of nasty storms barreling into the west coast. powerful winds have started knocking out power. >> just need to get to the other side of town. i don't have a choice. >> picked a bad day to do it? >> yeah. >> u.s. embassy in cairo is...
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and that's what fuels our economy. >> some of the people who argue that we should go off the fiscal cliff, that it will push them to negotiate a sort of more thoughtful deal -- >> right. >> -- they say that it's not a fiscal cliff, it's, you know, more of a slope. having said that, what is your thought on the psychological impact if we go off the cliff? >> it's huge. it's tremendous. it's absolutely tremendous because it will go across the board from regular americans who are going to see their taxes go up from $500 to $2,000 for middle-income household. this is going to affect their bottom line tremendously. that's groceries. that's saving money. that's their savings money for the year. but also what about mortgage interest? will that affect the housing market? there may be initial -- basically, it will go back down again, the housing market. or if it gets phased in, maybe we'll see a jump because people will rush in before the deduction completely goes away. but i think there's a lot of concern and a lot of panic among regular americans about will i lose these tax deductions? and what's
and that's what fuels our economy. >> some of the people who argue that we should go off the fiscal cliff, that it will push them to negotiate a sort of more thoughtful deal -- >> right. >> -- they say that it's not a fiscal cliff, it's, you know, more of a slope. having said that, what is your thought on the psychological impact if we go off the cliff? >> it's huge. it's tremendous. it's absolutely tremendous because it will go across the board from regular americans...
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you have to believe that part of that is due to the uncertainty of the fiscal cliff. and we've seen a number of companies coming out saying we're not firing but we're delaying hiring and delaying investment projects. delays in an already weak economy, you don't want hesitation. it's a vicious cycle of hesitation and slow growth. kind of an opposite of what we saw in the '90s where you had certainty and caution thrown to the wind in robust growth. >> christine has one ear piece in, talking with us with the other ear. >> hurricane sandy, they say, did not affect the overall rate. they did not see that the overall rate was affected by hurricane sandy. the labor force declined a bid of 300,000 or so. retail trade was strong. construction was a little weaker. unchanged for the workweek, 43.4 hours. you still have long-time unemployed, an interesting number. that's been just stuck. >> yeah. >> that's 40% of the people unemployed that have been out of work for six months or longer. >> we're not -- you know, we can't make sense of what this means in the grand scheme of things
you have to believe that part of that is due to the uncertainty of the fiscal cliff. and we've seen a number of companies coming out saying we're not firing but we're delaying hiring and delaying investment projects. delays in an already weak economy, you don't want hesitation. it's a vicious cycle of hesitation and slow growth. kind of an opposite of what we saw in the '90s where you had certainty and caution thrown to the wind in robust growth. >> christine has one ear piece in, talking...
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when it comes to the fiscal cliff threatening our economy and jobs the white house has wasted another week. >>reporter: he calls officials saying they are ready to go over the trip. >>shepard: democrats insist that revenue, revenue, revenue is the key. >>guest: president obama campaigned on it and obviously won and democrats insist upper income americans should pay higher taxes but there could be room to negotiate but their point is they don't want to talk about other aspects of a deal until the g.o.p. gives in on their demand for more tax money. >> what is lacking are the revenues. we cannot cut your way to deficit reduction. what reduces the deficit are jobs. job creation. after spending cuts, and medicare saving, and next is the revenue. >>reporter: leader pelosi spent time at the white house today meeting with president obama on what we are told are a number of issues. >>shepard: thank you, mike, from washington, dc. we know that business collects information from us when we go to our website our mobile apps. usually it is legal. there is a new law that requires companies to notif
when it comes to the fiscal cliff threatening our economy and jobs the white house has wasted another week. >>reporter: he calls officials saying they are ready to go over the trip. >>shepard: democrats insist that revenue, revenue, revenue is the key. >>guest: president obama campaigned on it and obviously won and democrats insist upper income americans should pay higher taxes but there could be room to negotiate but their point is they don't want to talk about other aspects...
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>> well, to some degree, remember, what is the fiscal cliff? it will hurt the economy allegedly. i don't buy it but that is what everyone -- >> bret: it will hurt the pentagon, correct? >> right. and the domestic spending cuts. fiscal cliff is not cutting spending. it's about preventing a tax increase that preventing spending cuts. now the republican arguement is more complicated. to use the deadline, legitimate argument. i agree with it in principle. use the deadline to get the longer range spending cuts. the president can say fine, i want to negotiate those next year. can't do it in three weeks. incidentally, speaker boehner what medicare cuts are you for, he will say? if the republican position, the republicans campaigned against $716 million in medicare cuts from the current program. republicans for medicare reform. not for squeezing the current program. they will say i want to give the middle class, make sure the middle class tax rate stay where they are. i don't want the republicans to squeeze medicare more than we did, have done in the past. i'm worried. that the president
>> well, to some degree, remember, what is the fiscal cliff? it will hurt the economy allegedly. i don't buy it but that is what everyone -- >> bret: it will hurt the pentagon, correct? >> right. and the domestic spending cuts. fiscal cliff is not cutting spending. it's about preventing a tax increase that preventing spending cuts. now the republican arguement is more complicated. to use the deadline, legitimate argument. i agree with it in principle. use the deadline to get...
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members of his own party seem quite comfortable sending the economy over the fiscal cliff. >> let's bring in our friday gaggle, associate editor and columnist for the hill amy stoddard, danielle gibbs, and columnist for bloomberg view and national review and one of the funnier people on twitter and he did not pay me to say that but i will start with you. so we kind of feel like we're back to square one. should republicans having seen them lose the presidency by a wider margin than many people thought lose seats in the senate which i don't think almost anybody -- unless you're a loyal democrat thought, and lose seats, though, to keep control of the house three and a half weeks ago. should they be more willing to say let's just do a deal here and move on? we kind of lost that argument. we need to pick a better fight. >> i think republicans -- before the election they were dead set against any increase in taxes on upper income people or anybody. and they have moved on that but there's a limit how far they can move and the deal put forward yesterday, john boehner could endorse that tomorrow.
members of his own party seem quite comfortable sending the economy over the fiscal cliff. >> let's bring in our friday gaggle, associate editor and columnist for the hill amy stoddard, danielle gibbs, and columnist for bloomberg view and national review and one of the funnier people on twitter and he did not pay me to say that but i will start with you. so we kind of feel like we're back to square one. should republicans having seen them lose the presidency by a wider margin than many...
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Dec 4, 2012
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in going over the fiscal cliff. i don't think that's sustainable. i don't think people fully understand, what the president is saying is 100% of american families and small businesses get continued tax relief on their first $250,000 in income, and on the income above that amount, higher income people would be paying the same rates they did during the clinton administration, which is four more cents on the dollar. and, again, i don't think that's at all unreasonable. the president talked about this at length during the presidential campaign, and i believe -- i think people like tom cole, a conservative republican in oklahoma had it right when he warned his colleagues they would look totally obstructionist if they allowed that to happen. >> congressman, also included in the president's plan was that $200 billion in new stimulus measures. mention the word stimulus to republicans, and, well, they're not too happy with that word. so why do that? why deliberately like -- it seems like it was a deliberate poke in the side.
in going over the fiscal cliff. i don't think that's sustainable. i don't think people fully understand, what the president is saying is 100% of american families and small businesses get continued tax relief on their first $250,000 in income, and on the income above that amount, higher income people would be paying the same rates they did during the clinton administration, which is four more cents on the dollar. and, again, i don't think that's at all unreasonable. the president talked about...
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. >> reporter: the fiscal cliff is still three weeks away. but the economy may have already taken a hit. economists predict the government's monthly jobs report, due out later this morning, will show that employers added fewer than 100,000 workers in november. superstorm sandy may be part of the reason job creation slowed. but worry over the fiscal cliff may have also had an immaterial pact. some economists believe that 200,000 fewer jobs thhave been created this year, due to uncertainty about the fiscal cliff. >> it's very important we get it done now. >> reporter: republicans and democrats are talking again. but still, no breakthrough. the parties are locked in a stalemate. president obama is demanding that higher tax rates for the wealthy and a permanent extension of the debt ceiling, the government's ability to borrow money, be part of the deal. >> he's assuming unprecedented power to spend taxpayer dollars out any limit at all. >> reporter: republicans who say they're open to raising tax revenue say they will only do so in exchange for d
. >> reporter: the fiscal cliff is still three weeks away. but the economy may have already taken a hit. economists predict the government's monthly jobs report, due out later this morning, will show that employers added fewer than 100,000 workers in november. superstorm sandy may be part of the reason job creation slowed. but worry over the fiscal cliff may have also had an immaterial pact. some economists believe that 200,000 fewer jobs thhave been created this year, due to uncertainty...
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is in the fiscal cliff. in britain today, the finance minister george osborn was forced to defend his policy of austerity in the light of economic growth. >> when georgia osborn when to address the house of commons from the british economy -- on the british economy, he had to read mcvet is taking much longer than in must got to balance -- he had to admit it is taking much habrÉ than it osborn when o address was first thought to balance the nation's books. >> the people want to know that we are making progress, and the message today is that we are making progress. it is a hard road, but we are getting there. >> he pointed to the economic problems globally that are making his job harder. as a result, the chancellor announced austerity would have to last for logger, until 2018, in fact. that means more benefits will now be squeezed, and there will be a tax rates on the pension pops. >> i know these tax measures willthought to balance not be r. ways to reduce the deficit never are. but we must act together. whe
is in the fiscal cliff. in britain today, the finance minister george osborn was forced to defend his policy of austerity in the light of economic growth. >> when georgia osborn when to address the house of commons from the british economy -- on the british economy, he had to read mcvet is taking much longer than in must got to balance -- he had to admit it is taking much habrÉ than it osborn when o address was first thought to balance the nation's books. >> the people want to know...
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. >> -- and protect the middle class from the fiscal cliff. but without spending cuts an entitlement reforms it will be impossible to address our country's debt ace crisis and get our economy growing again and create jobs. right now all eyes are on the white house. our country doesn't need a victory lap, it needs leadership. it is time for the president, congressional democrats, to tell the american people what spending cuts they're really willing to make. with that i will take a few questions. >> speaker boehner, why would you not tell democrats what spending cuts you would like to see -- [inaudible] >> it has been very clear over the last year-and-a-half. i've talked to the president about many of them. you can look at our budget. where we outline very specific proposals that we passed in last year's budget and the budget from the year before. we know what the menu is. what we don't know is what the white house is willing to do to get serious about solving our debt crisis. >> [inaudible]. >> listen, i'm not going to get into the details but
. >> -- and protect the middle class from the fiscal cliff. but without spending cuts an entitlement reforms it will be impossible to address our country's debt ace crisis and get our economy growing again and create jobs. right now all eyes are on the white house. our country doesn't need a victory lap, it needs leadership. it is time for the president, congressional democrats, to tell the american people what spending cuts they're really willing to make. with that i will take a few...
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going off the fiscal cliff will hurt our economy. it will cost american jobs. republicans have taken action to avert the fiscal cliff by passing legislation to stop all the tax hikes, to replace the sequester, and pave the way for tax reform and entitlement reform. we are the only ones with a balanced plan to protect the economy, protect american jobs, and protect the middle class from the fiscal cliff. without spending cuts and entitlement reform, it will be impossible to address our country's debt crisis and get our economy going again and to create jobs. right now all eyes are on the white house. the country does not need a victory lap. it needs leadership. it is time for the president and congressional democrats to tell the american people what spending cuts they're willing to make. with that, i will take a few questions. [indiscernible] >> it has been very clear over the last year and a half. i have talked to the president about many of them. you can look at our budgets where we outlined specific proposals that we passed last year and the year before. we k
going off the fiscal cliff will hurt our economy. it will cost american jobs. republicans have taken action to avert the fiscal cliff by passing legislation to stop all the tax hikes, to replace the sequester, and pave the way for tax reform and entitlement reform. we are the only ones with a balanced plan to protect the economy, protect american jobs, and protect the middle class from the fiscal cliff. without spending cuts and entitlement reform, it will be impossible to address our country's...
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. >> the fiscal cliff is a metaphor. build a bridge with jobbings. you will have a jobs report that comes out and shows not enough jobs are create to move the economy fard forward. if we have a fisl cliff deal that results in government spending cut, are likelyy to see deleverage that causes unemployment go up and tax revenue. we need more taxpayers and not just talk about raising more taxes. jobs are a central problem that we are not discussing. >> gretchen: wait a minute. you are saying we shouldn't have a discussion of cutting spending because that does not create jobs. >> no, let's look at it bush tax cut that was a trillion dollars in unpaid for spending. wars were unpaid for . a six trillion housing bubble, we need to help people stay in their homes and have freddie mac or fannie mae write down mortgage principles. it is not that we can't solve but the prescriptions of cutting spending and increasing taxes are old prescriptions and not going to work. we got to get america back to work and get businesses going again. the federal reserve plays a
. >> the fiscal cliff is a metaphor. build a bridge with jobbings. you will have a jobs report that comes out and shows not enough jobs are create to move the economy fard forward. if we have a fisl cliff deal that results in government spending cut, are likelyy to see deleverage that causes unemployment go up and tax revenue. we need more taxpayers and not just talk about raising more taxes. jobs are a central problem that we are not discussing. >> gretchen: wait a minute. you are...
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watch this whole fiscal cliff dial backfire. the -- the economy is going into recession in new year. lou: do you believe there is no way to avoid the fiscal cliff.
watch this whole fiscal cliff dial backfire. the -- the economy is going into recession in new year. lou: do you believe there is no way to avoid the fiscal cliff.
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this agreement should come sooner rather than later because just the threat of the fiscal cliff is already hurting our economy. now listen, i believe that raising tax rates hurts our economy, hurts the prospects for more jobs in our country. and i realize the president may disagree, but the fact is if there's another way to get revenue from upper income americans that doesn't hurt our economy, then why wouldn't we consider it? >> what if we go over the cliff. doesn't the president hold all the cards then? can't he say, all right, everybody taxes have increased. i'm offering 98% a tax cut of $2,000 a year. you are the party of lower taxes. are you going to refuse to cut people's tacks? >> nobody wants to go over the cliff. that's why the day after the election i tried to speed this process up by making the concession to put revenues on the table. it's unfortunate that the white house has spent three weeks doing basically nothing. >> so you have been around this town a long time, you have been in a lot of negotiations, what is there game? what is their thinking as to how they are going to wo
this agreement should come sooner rather than later because just the threat of the fiscal cliff is already hurting our economy. now listen, i believe that raising tax rates hurts our economy, hurts the prospects for more jobs in our country. and i realize the president may disagree, but the fact is if there's another way to get revenue from upper income americans that doesn't hurt our economy, then why wouldn't we consider it? >> what if we go over the cliff. doesn't the president hold...
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ari sticking with the topic of the economy fears of falling over the proverbial fiscal cliff have forced the issue to the top of the congressional agenda the upcoming financial crisis was created by congress to force congress to act and is now acting against congress so much so that it could potentially cause the us to spiral into a congressional mandated recession so are you prepared for that or do you think this whole thing will blow over in the net and a last minute deal lorie harshness of the resident dot net took that question to the streets of the financial capital of the world. america is about to go over the fiscal cliff are you worried what should we do about it this week let's talk about that do you know the fiscal cliff. do you think a lot of americans do so then why is the media talking about it incessantly well so good there i i guess i'm not as informed as i should be but i just kind of figure it might work out do you think most people feel that way you know you think most people are worried i think they are and i think that if i ignored it all go away do you think calling
ari sticking with the topic of the economy fears of falling over the proverbial fiscal cliff have forced the issue to the top of the congressional agenda the upcoming financial crisis was created by congress to force congress to act and is now acting against congress so much so that it could potentially cause the us to spiral into a congressional mandated recession so are you prepared for that or do you think this whole thing will blow over in the net and a last minute deal lorie harshness of...
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even if there is a fiscal cliff hit to the economy, they are in better shape to survive it. the bread and butter were the suvs, big cars. a lot of car enthusiasts and people like me love to look at expensive sports cars like the chevrolet camaros. they have switched to, what is selling well is very small cars like this 2013 chevrolet spark. you can see the price tag here, very recession, post recession conscious. $15,000 for this car. now, among the new products offered is an all-electric version of the spark. it will only be sold in california and oregon, initially. some of the innovations here, you will be able to charge this car in 20 minutes, up to 80% of its charge. gm not saying how far it will go on the charge, somewhere under 100 miles. this is definitely a commuter car. this is the mix the auto makers are going to. smaller cars is what's driving the industry right now. >> does it appear to be business as usual in terms of car buyers or how does the situation in washington affect this year's auto show? a lot of people don't know what their tax rates are going to be n
even if there is a fiscal cliff hit to the economy, they are in better shape to survive it. the bread and butter were the suvs, big cars. a lot of car enthusiasts and people like me love to look at expensive sports cars like the chevrolet camaros. they have switched to, what is selling well is very small cars like this 2013 chevrolet spark. you can see the price tag here, very recession, post recession conscious. $15,000 for this car. now, among the new products offered is an all-electric...
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the fiasco of going over the fiscal cliff. as i told the president a couple of weeks ago, there are in a glut of things i have wanted a detriment of, but almost all of them had a price tag attached to them. if we're going to talk above the debt limit, there will be depressed as a seated with it. i continue to believe any increase until the debt limit meats are exceeded. >> could after an in. we have just had a meeting with the secretariat of the treasury. it was a very productive meeting. this does not have to be a cliffhanger. it has already passed the senate. democrats are prepared to vote for it. we urge our republican colleagues and the house. let's give a christmas present to the republican people. this confidence that will give them as consumers will give confidence to the markets as well. the president has been clear, and we support him on holding firm to the expiration of tax cuts making 200 to dozen dollars a year. that would be part of a package. we have already voted for cut. revenues are needed and a job creation i
the fiasco of going over the fiscal cliff. as i told the president a couple of weeks ago, there are in a glut of things i have wanted a detriment of, but almost all of them had a price tag attached to them. if we're going to talk above the debt limit, there will be depressed as a seated with it. i continue to believe any increase until the debt limit meats are exceeded. >> could after an in. we have just had a meeting with the secretariat of the treasury. it was a very productive meeting....
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when it comes to the fiscal cliff that's threatening our economy and threatening jobs, the white house has wasted another week. >> we've had time. the president has given the republicans flexibility to come up with a credible, specific plan. what they offered in return was an empty letter lacking in specifics. >> meanwhile, vice president biden is having lunch with several middle class americans who would see their income taxes go up if the tax cuts are not extended. all of this comes as the first jobs report since the election exceeded expectations. the u.s. economy added some 146,000 jobs last month. that was enough it to drive the unemployment rate down to 7.7%. joining me to talk about all of it, florida congresswoman debbie wasserman schultz and she chairs the democratic national committee. good friday afternoon to you. >> thank you. >> john boehner said today that democrats' plan is to, quote, slow walk our economy to the edge of the fiscal cliff. how do you respond it to that? >> well, that's just utterly preposterous. the republicans right now in the house of representatives ha
when it comes to the fiscal cliff that's threatening our economy and threatening jobs, the white house has wasted another week. >> we've had time. the president has given the republicans flexibility to come up with a credible, specific plan. what they offered in return was an empty letter lacking in specifics. >> meanwhile, vice president biden is having lunch with several middle class americans who would see their income taxes go up if the tax cuts are not extended. all of this...
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cliff is already starting to hurt the economy, do you agree? >> you see that with the investment spending, and it can only get worse as we get closer to the end of the year as everybody holds their breath in the economy collectively, we have big problems. lori: one thing was the incredible amount of government spending especially on defense. one of the biggest issues is concerning. >> the issue really is what happened in the current quarter and going into the beginning of next year. other types of discretionary spending is as well. the total is $600 billion, the economy simply cannot withstand that sort of shock. we saw a week underlining detail report. know the economy will be soft in the current quarter due in part to hurricane sandy but also the slower trends in the various components. lori: 1.7 is the consensus estimate of expansion, what are you thinking? >> we're forecasting 1.3%. in the ballpark of 1.7 before hurricane made landfall. more of a ceiling than a floor at this point. lori: anything good to look forward to? >> things don't loo
cliff is already starting to hurt the economy, do you agree? >> you see that with the investment spending, and it can only get worse as we get closer to the end of the year as everybody holds their breath in the economy collectively, we have big problems. lori: one thing was the incredible amount of government spending especially on defense. one of the biggest issues is concerning. >> the issue really is what happened in the current quarter and going into the beginning of next year....
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the fiscal cliff was created by politicians who lack the courage to do the best for the american people. and already has done severe damage to the economy. now we have democrats who want to suck money out of the economy in tax and we have rhino republicans in name only who wants spending cuts. both those things will do damag% to the economy and any compromise will damage the economy and push it further into deep recession. neither side discusses the real problem which is the enormous costs of big government. cost in money and regulations and intrusion. neither side discusses that because they are career politicians and big government is their career. dennis: what should republicans do? should they cave and let tax rates go up on the rich or hold out and let the company -- the country go over the cliff? >> they hold out and let the country go over the cliff and aasolutely insure this lending limit, borrowing limit is enforced. to force government to shrink itself. this is the only way they will do that in my opinion, to have strict term limits for politicians in the future, single term l
the fiscal cliff was created by politicians who lack the courage to do the best for the american people. and already has done severe damage to the economy. now we have democrats who want to suck money out of the economy in tax and we have rhino republicans in name only who wants spending cuts. both those things will do damag% to the economy and any compromise will damage the economy and push it further into deep recession. neither side discusses the real problem which is the enormous costs of...
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new research on the white house plan to avoid the so-called fiscal cliff is raising concerns about how much the tax hikes can do to keep the economy afloat. the edover an influential financial paper he says america needs to be focused on. a case showing the potential down sides of winning the lottery. we'll detail the case of a man who struck it rich big time, and then was found dead and buried under a concrete slab in someone's backyard. now could the woman accused of stealing his cash and killing him wind up a free woman? "kelly's court" takes a look. >> i would never hurt that man. he knows, everyone knows i would never hurt that man in any way. t from a legal settlement or annuity over 10 or even 20 years? call imperial structured settlements. the experts at imperial can convert your long-term payout into a lump sum of cash today. and i'm here to tell homeowners that are 62 and older about a great way to live a better retirement. it's called a reverse mortgage. [ male announcer ] call right now to receive your free dvd and booklet with no obligation. it answers questions like how a
new research on the white house plan to avoid the so-called fiscal cliff is raising concerns about how much the tax hikes can do to keep the economy afloat. the edover an influential financial paper he says america needs to be focused on. a case showing the potential down sides of winning the lottery. we'll detail the case of a man who struck it rich big time, and then was found dead and buried under a concrete slab in someone's backyard. now could the woman accused of stealing his cash and...
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that's next in my >> eliot: is anyone else sick of talking about the fiscal cliff? a year ago facing a stagnant economy and long term deficit everybody in washington agreed they should come together to make the tough decisions that had to be made. something that would provide short-term stimulus but long-term debt relief. after all we all knew something had to be done. the health of our nation depended on it. washington surprise, surprise, decided to delay for the umpteenth time kicking the proverbial can down the road. then the campaign really heated up and we were told we would have our sweet relief after the election. finally the story went voters would provide clarity, a choice played out across the country that would deliver the elusive answers. what are we getting? endless posturing game playing and the same rhetoric over and over again. both sides standing up and preening themselves campaign style as if they expect the public to pay attention and give deference to the repetition of the same ideas. i for one are tired of it. americans have been poked and prodd
that's next in my >> eliot: is anyone else sick of talking about the fiscal cliff? a year ago facing a stagnant economy and long term deficit everybody in washington agreed they should come together to make the tough decisions that had to be made. something that would provide short-term stimulus but long-term debt relief. after all we all knew something had to be done. the health of our nation depended on it. washington surprise, surprise, decided to delay for the umpteenth time kicking...
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do you expect the economy to go over the fiscal cliff? what kind of reaction might we see in the market if that were to materialize? >> well, if we saw the market sell off in a big way, i don't think anybody believes we're going to go over the fiscal cliff. there will be some sort of resolution. they'll come up with some tax cuts, some breaks in spending, and probably kick the can down the road on a lot of it. i love the way this market is acting. it's not selling off with all the bad news, all the bickering, all the bad words on each side. you've got to love the way that this market is holding up here. doesn't mean investors need to be carefree, but overall, it looks like the market is setting up with a lot of negative sentiment out there. looks like there's a lot of opportunity for a big run higher once we get some form of resolution. i really believe we're going to get it. >> you think by year end? >> i really do. i think they want to go home for christmas. they're not going to want to not go home for christmas. you can always count on
do you expect the economy to go over the fiscal cliff? what kind of reaction might we see in the market if that were to materialize? >> well, if we saw the market sell off in a big way, i don't think anybody believes we're going to go over the fiscal cliff. there will be some sort of resolution. they'll come up with some tax cuts, some breaks in spending, and probably kick the can down the road on a lot of it. i love the way this market is acting. it's not selling off with all the bad...
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particularly if we fall off the fiscal cliff. the united states, the largest economy in the world, but yet we have the largest debt in the world. that's why the conversation needs to go to spending. what are we doing with all this money? unemployment, skyrocketing at 9%, but a slow-down in our gdp. >> sean: the real cliff is what you're saying, down the road, when it's $20 trillion in debt, when it's not $16 trillion. >> doesn't matter. say we put in place revenue to come in to the door, what are we going to do with it? >> sean: they've already spent it. >> that's so true. it's already spent. >> anytime they raise more taxes, more revenue coming in, they spend it. the beast of government is ravenous. they never cut back. you're exactly right, sean, the real fiscal cliff is when the laws of economics kick in, which they will inevitably do, they have to do, because it can't go on like this. you see the results of hitting the wall in greece, in spain, i3 italy. it will happen here. unlike the european countries, there's nobody to ba
particularly if we fall off the fiscal cliff. the united states, the largest economy in the world, but yet we have the largest debt in the world. that's why the conversation needs to go to spending. what are we doing with all this money? unemployment, skyrocketing at 9%, but a slow-down in our gdp. >> sean: the real cliff is what you're saying, down the road, when it's $20 trillion in debt, when it's not $16 trillion. >> doesn't matter. say we put in place revenue to come in to the...